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Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
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Author:  Q-BZ [ 16 Apr 2010, 16:17 ]
Post subject:  Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
I'm watching the Fermi scene with increasing discouragement and dismay so with that in the back of my mind I'm starting to look a lot more intently at ATI.

I'll be staying with a single monitor for the forseeable future. 24 inches for now and maybe 30 someday.

If I go ATI, who is the all around best brand and what would be an appreciable upgrade to what I have now?

What's the real story on their drivers? Is it really a nightmare like I'm perceiving a little bit?

I see folks saying that 2GB cards are only worth it if you're going multi monitor. Doesn't bother me. I'll pop for that if there's some long term benefits down the road.

So I'm wide open on this subject including simply waiting it out another 6 months. You guys help make gauge this market because I'm past information overload at this point.

Tamlin and I have already exchanged a couple of PMs at HOCP about this so hopefully he'll jump in, too.
Author:  Tamlin [ 19 Apr 2010, 15:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Sorry for late reply.
We had a couple of PM's at [H], so I'll sum it up and add a little. :)

Objective facts single cards (5870 vs. GTX480):

GTX480:

Good:
Faster
PhysX
Cuda
3D vision (anaglyphic), the rest is addon (shutterglasses+monitor)

Bad:
Heat
Noise (dB)
Power consumption
Cost
Connection options (no DP)
Sound over HDMI (only via SP-DIF)

5870:

Good:
Heat
Noise
Power consumption
Cost
Connection options
Sound over HDMI
Eyefinity
ATI Stream
3D anaglyphic via third-party (IZ3D as example) the rest is addon (shutterglasses and monitor)

Bad:
Performance (vs. GTX480)

Dual card solutions:
GTX480 gets Nvidia surround for multimonitor
5870 gets PhysX and Cuda (according to post in EVGA forums)
SLI/Crossfire

Please add to these if there is something missing of objective facts.

Subjective facts:

Does not exist. Its a contradiction. When subjective, it becomes an opinion.

My advice (based upon what you have said on your usage):
Wait before you buy. You have a GTX280, which performs well. The GTX480 is hard to get and you are uncertain of your purchase. It has also had a buggy ride before release, so you might benefit from waiting to see if some errors not uncovered yet occurs with the new architecture of Fermi. It did not turn out as Nvidia planned (less cores, higher TDP). It has promise as a good performer, with drawbacks as shown above. You are also used to the drivers and features, so you will be on "familiar ground". I wouldn't dismiss the GTX480 yet. :)

I'll update this post with my personal experience and thoughts about ATI drivers according to my usage and preferences, since you wished. There will also be more results I've tested regarding temps and noise on the 5870 PCS+. :)
Author:  Q-BZ [ 19 Apr 2010, 16:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
My instincts continue to tell me "wait until Fall" all told especially after the way I've seen the Fermi "launch" go thus far and the reports, while not as bad as could have been, about heat and noise slow me in my tracks a bit as far as getting one of those cards goes.

Very nice breakdown there, Tamlin. :)

Look forward to seeing whatever you or anyone else feels like posting.

That EVGA forum post is pretty interesting. Almost a best of both worlds situation.
Author:  Tamlin [ 19 Apr 2010, 20:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Thank you. :) I tried to make it a bit more full, since I was late in answering.

In autumn, there will probably be better cards (AMD CEO talked about yearly release of new GFX cards and Nvidia might have 512 Fermi or fermi 2 on the works then). If DX11 isn't a problem for you in the immediate future and framerates are acceptable, I find no reason to buy a new card other then tinkering purposes.

My personal experience with ATI cards and drivers:

History:
In autumn 2008, I was considering a new card between an EVGA 280 (I think it was called black pearl or black something) and a Gainward (Palit) 4870X2 tricooler edition. I bought the tri-cooler edition, made custom profile for silence and had a rock stable setup until I bought the 5870. With the 5870, I got grey screen issues. With lots of swapping out parts and troubleshooting, I could not find out why this happened. It only happened in 3D and only when I had a single screen attached. With double screens, I didn't have issues. Turns out that both my PSU's were failing. One of the PSU's crapped out and took the card with it, while the other was getting unstable (I tested it specifically for that). Weirdly enough, they performed stable with the 4870X2, so the power profile on the 5870 might be too aggressive and failing PSU's might not handle that.

Since the 5870 crashed, I needed to get a new card. As always, I am looking towards offerings from all vendors, since its the products I am interested in and I am vendor neutral that way.

The GTX480 is new and shiny, so the tinker in me wanted to buy that one "to get something new". But, I have invested much time and $$$ to get a quiet PC where I can surf quietly and still have good gaming capabilities. While the GTX480 definitely is a great performer and undoubtedly faster then the 5870, the heat and power would make my system too noisy and I would have to clock it down to get some decent temps and fan speeds. Even then, there is almost no headroom. So, it would probably perform less or the same as a 5870 once I've gotten it to the sound profile I want. I got the Powercolor 5870 PCS+ recommended for my "quiet, but powerful" goals and I must say that it doesn't disappoint. The reference cooler of the 5870 ain't that bad, once you have made a custom profile, since the GPU has low power requirement and heat to begin with. But, this card is a dream in terms of cool and silent. I would not buy it if I was overclocking, due to lack of decent voltage control, but otherwise, its stellar.

In an already silenced system with fans operating at low RPM's, its idles at 33C with 9% fan speed:


The default fan speed is pretty aggressive, so I prefer to use it with MSI Afterburner. Here is a 20 minutes extreme burn test with Afterburner and default speed (60C with 45% fan speed, unnecessary high fan speed). Tested with high rpm on intake fan.:



Here's to show the potential in setting different fan speed. 75C at 25% fan speed, 20 minutes of extreme burn. (tested with high rpm on intake fan)


Needless to say, I achieved my goal of quiet, but powerful build. :rockout

Next, I'll take driver experience indepth, but I have to work a little. :)
Author:  Daleon [ 19 Apr 2010, 20:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
For a single 24" monitor I don't see any real reason to upgrade from the 280. I replaced my 260 with a 5850. Its hard to say it was a noticeable upgrade since nothing I played was slow to begin with. If you are having performance issues now sure upgrade, but I can't imagine you are unless its BF2 at 1080p with everything maxed I guess your only getting in the high 20's, low 30's. But turned down to even the point that its not even visual noticeable you would be back to getting pretty high fps.

I haven't had any driver issues with ATI. I've gone back and forth since Rage 3d and TNT and personally don't live in fear of switching brands. I thought not having physx would be a downer, but really could care less now.
Author:  Q-BZ [ 21 Apr 2010, 01:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Tamlin and I had a little chat over PM but I wanted to thank him publicly and share my comments publicly FWIW. :)


I ended up scoring an EVGA GTX 480 SC almost by accident. Nowinstock.net sent an email alert to my email box, I clicked the link, saw it, pulled the trigger, and got it at Newegg. And the order actually held and I made the cut!


There's just so much floating around about these cards that I need to see it for myself and scratch that itch. I've seen so much mixed intel at this point that I think the only way I'll know the real story is to run it for myself up or down in my rig and see what's what.

If it turns my room into a sauna and sounds like a lawn mower then it'll be out of here pretty quick.

Needless to say, if something doesn't work out for any reason I have a lot of good info in my back pocket thanks to the folks around here and in this thread.

There's a very short list of cards that I considered a worthwhile upgrade to my 280. The 480, a 5870, and a 5970 so we shall see what happens. :)
Author:  Tamlin [ 21 Apr 2010, 02:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Now its only the worst part left: Waiting for new toy to arrive! :rockout
Author:  Q-BZ [ 21 Apr 2010, 03:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Now its only the worst part left: Waiting for new toy to arrive! :rockout


It'll be here tomorrow. ;)
Author:  Yui [ 24 Apr 2010, 20:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Might upgrade from GTX 280 SSC. Need advice
Wait for Q3 2010 for the ATI GPU refresh. I personally am waiting for the ATI 5890 (must be faster, cooler, silent, cheaper than gtx 480). Seriously, you don't need to upgrade. Also, you mentioned something about you wanting a good GPU for future proof, well I bet you don't really need any future proofing since you always upgrade your GPU anyways, just like now you are replacing a still good GPU with a new one.
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