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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2011, 17:35 
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I guess your definition and my definition of decent title will vary, but as far as I know Amnesia: The Dark Descent doesn't support SLI. I know for a fact it runs terribly on my Surround rig, and likewise on a single screen system if SLI is enabled.

However, the lesser perfect support of CrossFire is less of an issue as EyeFinity can be run off a single card.

...

Regardless, my biggest gripe with nVidia Surround isn't the need for two cards, or anything like that... all I want is the ability to swap from Surround to Extended Desktop without navigating through menu after menu. Profiles and Hotkey swapping, in other words.


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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2011, 18:17 
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What you need is Matrox's desktop tool. I forget the name but it's a free download and you can use a hydra-grid like utility to carve out virtual monitors within your "single" surround monitors and thus control window maximizing.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2011, 01:45 
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Regardless, my biggest gripe with nVidia Surround isn't the need for two cards, or anything like that... all I want is the ability to swap from Surround to Extended Desktop without navigating through menu after menu. Profiles and Hotkey swapping, in other words.


Interesting, I always thought my roommate just didn't look hard enough when he said nvidia can't swap between extended and surround profiles.

What you need is Matrox's desktop tool. I forget the name but it's a free download and you can use a hydra-grid like utility to carve out virtual monitors within your "single" surround monitors and thus control window maximizing.


There are other reasons to go back to extended desktop. For example to play a game on a single screen. I have a few games that I have no choice but to switch back to extended desktop. Either way... ATI has hydragrid (not sure if nvidia has something similar), so I have eyefinity 'grids' covered as well.


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2011, 02:29 
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So, I just kinda realized how bad a solution nVidia Surround is for surround gaming. Theirs a lot of things that they are doing wrong.



1. First and Foremost, NOT ENOUGH VRAM. Their card hit the wall in a lot of test, and i would never think of going nVidia until there's a card that has 2GB of VRAM or more. 12MP is a lot to render folks and it still need AA.
--I'm aware of the new 560's with 3GB of VRAM. But I'm sure it's gonna cost out the butt for them. I'm just poor so bleh.

2. It Takes AT LEAST 2 Cards in SLI to work. There are a lot of games that don't like SLI. Basically when SLI doesn't work, it really doesn't work. But when it does, it works well. But it's not gonna work well with a lot of obscure games. On top of that, the frame issue I though up. With having 2 cards, you have to cut each frame after they are rendered and send it to the correct card where then it maybe cut again and sent to the right port. This will create lag as to make sure each monitor is in sync with each other. Dumb. If the card could handle at least 3 monitors per gpu, then the only thing that would be needed is a transfer of the frame and then a clean cut and then out the ports. Done. No real syncing required.
--I'm aware of the 295, but that's not 3 screens per gpu, it's 2 per gpu, but there are two gpu's...DUMB.

3. The lack of different configurations. It's 3 monitors in landscape or portrait. Or 3 projectors in landscape. Or 3 3D monitors in landscape. All require 3 displays. Wtf?
--There's nothing to say about this except that they do allow for a 4 monitor to be extended while on the desktop, not a fullscreen game. DUMB.

So in summary I want nVidia to get serious about surround on their next GPU line. Make 2GB the baseline, allow for more display lanes per GPU, and Allow for more display configurations. (I mean why cant we have 2 screens?)

Rant over. Questions? Comments?


Having used Matrox TH2G, NVIDIA Surround, SoftTH and AMD Eyefinity I agree with your overall assessment. NVIDIA simply doesn't get surround-screen gaming. They implemented it to combat Eyefinity, not to meet a need of users -- which is the wrong mindset to go into feature development. What is sickening is that way back when the TH2G first debuted a half-decade ago NVIDIA dominated the triple-screen gaming market for years thanks to Matrox exclusivity. It took AMD cashing in on it before NVIDIA could get their head out of the sand and realize there was money to be made.

1. We all know how much ram can make a difference with large multi-screen resolutions. Just casual observation between my GTX260 and GTX470 surround rigs showed me how much video ram can choke up a system.

2. NVIDIA simply doesn't get it when it comes to the cost of entry into surround-screen. AMD has a bit of an issue with that too, but it's mostly to do with their self-described "legacy" ports. In order for surround-screen to gain any traction in the market, it needs to run off a single card and not be required to purchase any excess adapters. AMD only half understands that and NVIDIA doesn't understand that at all -- to the point of forcing two-card solutions. This will continue to be an issue on both sides of the fence until DP 1.2 gains traction in the display and projector market and every single product ships with it by default. I don't see that happening for another 2-5 years.

3. This goes back to my initial statement -- NVIDIA simply doesn't understand the surround-gaming market. No dual-display or quad-display options either? Totally forget about 3x2 or 5x1 outright. Triple-screen is not the end-all-be-all of surround-screen gaming. NVIDIA Surround is so dumbed down as to be crippled compared to Eyefinity configuration offerings.

Having direct dealings with both NVIDIA and AMD -- it's like night and day with how they interact with people. NVIDIA doesn't want your input or ideas as they claim they might inadvertently steal them and don't want the legal liability. AMD, on the other hand, openly asks for input on surround-screen and seeks out partners to help better flesh out the feature set. I just have to shake my head and wonder -- AMD and NVIDIA are really at polar opposites as far as how they deal with development.

I'm not so sure it's an NVIDIA initiated occurrence, but I saw at CES 2011 several prototypes that implement DP1.2 into 500-series cards. I saw NVIDIA cards with DP 1.2 from Palit, EVGA and Zotac. The problem is, despite how many DP 1.2 ports a card has, NVIDIA Surround is still hard coded at the driver level to require SLI and two cards for just 3x1 only.

Just where is the innovation and vision when it comes to NVIDIA and surround? I sum it up as too little, too late and too expensive. An optimist might look at the current feature set and think NVIDIA has a lot of room to add new goodies in the future, but frankly I think 3x1 SLI is going to be their frozen feature-set for the foreseeable future. Frankly the only thing I see that NVIDIA does better than AMD with surround is being able to span multiple ports between cards to do surround - even then it's a very fixed and static configuration.

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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2011, 14:53 
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I agree with OP and have same view points.

Eyefinity has its flaws but when I weight out AMD vs Nvidia its not even a challenging comparison AMD wins easy due to price, features, compatibility, etc.

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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2011, 18:09 
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Nvidia Surround is great imo, running 3 way SLI of GTX 480, btw the GTX580 3Gb cards will simply decimate any ATI eyefinity setup, wait and see. :D


For twice the price? :o


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2011, 00:42 
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[quote]Nvidia Surround is great imo, running 3 way SLI of GTX 480, btw the GTX580 3Gb cards will simply decimate any ATI eyefinity setup, wait and see. :D


For twice the price? :o

Yeah so much must be factored in.

Not just the cost of the cards, but perhaps the cost of a more robust power supply, larger case, better case cooling, power bill cost, and then after you were willing to do all that it would suck if it does not even work on a game because it does not support SLI.

The single 5870 gets me playable frames on almost every game, going into higher than playable frame rates is not nessisary, so the only benifit I see is to perhaps get playable framerates on the few games I cant. Crysis and Metro 2033 are really the only two, and two games is not worth the increased cost for me.

As newer games come out it may be more demanding, but ATI will have stronger/better cards come around as well so its not like your forced to get Nvidia if you want more performance.

Also I know crossfire w/ eyefinity is around the corner here.

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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2011, 18:56 
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I just wish nVidia could get their head out their ass about surround. Honestly if they tried to be competitive here then I think both sides would start adding more and more features. If that happened it would be good for the consumer no matter which solution they picked. Hell maybe amd would finally implement a way so I can finally play at 5760x1200 (It's either 7680x1600 or 5040x1050 for me, I don't like this)

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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2011, 03:35 
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IMO, both ATI/AMD Eyefinity and Nvidia Surround are still in their relative infancy as far as technologies go (look at how driver dependent both are).

While they have both been around for a while now, development for them has been slow becuase this kind gaming has been "on the thin edge of the wedge" so to speak - a majority of gaming is still done on single monitors, so that's where most of the development / support is going. It's only natural, that as businesses, they will focus on the most profitable segments of the market.

However, now that multi-monitor gaming has started to become more popular, we're starting to see much more development happening, both at a hardware vendor level, and in partnering with the software publishers. I think more has been done in the last 6-12 months than in the 5 years prior, and it feels like this year is shaping up to be very interesting for us.

AMD may be a bit further along the road in terms of features for Eyefinity, but for me presonally, the lack of Crossfire support in windowed gaming (I run WoW in windowed mode for multiboxing) was a deal-breaker. I'm not saying that this makes Nvidia the better vendor, only that it makes them the better option for me. :)

Cheers,
S.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2011, 00:01 
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AMD may be a bit further along the road in terms of features for Eyefinity, but for me presonally, the lack of Crossfire support in windowed gaming (I run WoW in windowed mode for multiboxing) was a deal-breaker. I'm not saying that this makes Nvidia the better vendor, only that it makes them the better option for me. :)

Cheers,
S.


Neither SLI nor Crossfire work in windowed mode. WOW doesn't scale well with either one anyway.


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