Widescreen Gaming Forum

The Problem

I'm looking to build a new rig to support three widescreen monitors. I'll be getting two graphics cards with 2 Dual link DVI ports each, for a total of 4 ports. I'll be getting Triple Head 2 Go, Digital Edition (DTH2G). Like many of you I'll be wanting to use my rig in 3 different modes.

1. Stretched image accross the three monitors during gaming, driven by DTH2G. Call this "Gaming via DTH2G" mode.
2. Three independent monitors for 2D work. Using for office, browsing, and software development. This will bypass DTH2G, being driven directly by my two graphics cards. (In this mode one of the connections might pass through DTH2G but only driving one monitor). Call this "2D via Direct-to-Card" mode.
3. Single monitor (through DHT2G probably) for games and other applications that don't warrant, or cannot use, three monitors.

For the purposes of this discussion I don't think we need to bother with mode 3. That'll just fall out of making the other two modes work.

How do we setup our rig to support easy switching between the "Gaming via DTH2G" and "2D via Direct-to-Card" modes? By "easy" I just mean, at most, flicking a few hardware switches and/or a few clicks of some software. I'd like to avoid replugging cables to switch modes.

A couple of easy setups are detailed and confirmed by geniv2 and JKeefe below. The problem is that these setups entail partly using Digital connections (to DVI ports) and partly using analog connections (to VGA ports). I understand that pushing a digital signal through VGA connections entails some kind of signal degradation in virtue of the conversion. So I'm looking to either:

1. Avoid analog connections altogether; or
2. Find out which connections, Digital V Analog, I should use for the first two modes, Gaming via DTH2G V 2D via Direct-to-Card; or
3. Be reassured that going via VGA doesn't matter.

Example Setups

In "Usability of Triple Standard V Triple Wide" geniv2 posted his or her setup...

here's how my monitors are hooked up:

1st video card 9800GX2 nvidia (dual display)
2nd video card ATI FireMV 2400 (quad display)

Th2g is connect to DVI1 on my 9800gx2

-=-= MONITOR CONNECTIONS =-=-
Left monitor
- DVI to port in FireMV
- Analog to Left output on TH2G

Center Monitor
- DVI to center output on Th2g
- anaglog to 2nd output on 9800gx2

Right Monitor
- DVI to port in FireMV
- Analog to Right output on Th2g


-=-=-= DISPLAY MODES/SETTINGS =--=-=-

I use UltraMon and have hotkey or 2 clicks to switching between screen setting. I mainly use two modes. this is in windows

1) Triple display: 3x 1920x1200 (for regular work)
- L and R monitors are run from the DVI port on the FireMV
- center is run form Th2g via DVI in 1920x1200 res.

2) Matrox Th2g: 3x 1440x900 (for gaming)
- disable DVI output from FireMV to L and R monitor
- th2g runs at 4320x900. Center monitor run by DVI. L & R run by
th2g but in analog mode and the monitor automatically switch to analog input since it autodetects and the DVI feed is stopped.

3) Analog gaming: Single 1920x1200 VGA Direct connection to center monitor
- I have to set SLI output from matrox dvi port to the other port on my 9800gx2 via Nvdia control panel
- I only use this when I need to play games that have to use pesky resolutions or when the game gets " blank screen but runs" because this direct connection to the monitor gives more usable resolution without bugs than say the th2go that only have a limited mode.

I'm surprised it worked out so well with no major bugs other than my Th2g not being able to use single 1920x1200 in games.

Th2g is only used when I game the rest of the time it's useless and my 2nd videocard + ultramon does a better job. and can use my monitor's full resolution.

geniv2's post is enormously helpful. However, it also raises some issues (or confusion) for me in virture of the DVI Versus Analogue (VGA) connections.

Note that geniv2 goes analog for gaming (to 3 monitors via DHT2G) and digital for 2D (to 3 monitors via Direct-to-Cards). If one is forced to choose wouldn't it be better the otherway around? That is, Digital for 3D, analog for 2D? Don't I need to go Digital for 5,040 X 1050 = 3 x (1680 x 1050)?

In the same thread JKeefe advised us of his or her solution ..

[quote][quote]I switch to single screen 4320x900 or 5040x1050 for gaming only. the rest of the time I switch to triple display mode 1920x1200 via dual videocard and use Ultra Mon to manage my multi monitor.

I presume this "switching" is a simple affair. That is, via a hot key or something.

If so, I imagine your set up is as follows.
1. Primary Card Head 1 -> TripleHeadToGo -> 3 monitors
2. Primary Card Head 2 -> spare port on monitor 1
3. Secondary Card Head 1 -> spare port on monitor 2
4. Secondary Card Head 2 - > spare port on monitor 3.

Is that right? Do monitors generally come with the 2 inputs needed for this?John,

Pertaining to my setup discussed further up in the post, the is pretty much how I have things connected. The only change is line #2 (Primary Card Head 2 -> spare port on monitor 1); this is not necessary because you can have the TripleHead2Go disaply a single-screen resolution.

Monitors these days usually have at least two inputs, although to do this with the best quality for LCDs requires monitors with dual DVI inputs; these are rare. The input switch on my CRT monitors is a physical slider switch. On LCDs is it usually a momentary pushbutton.

Setting the desktop up like this offers the productivity of a true multi-monitor 2D workspace, with a fully functional Ultramon including the smart taskbar and independent wallpapers, and also allows the benefits the TripleHead2Go provides for gaming I already had dual-input monitors when I went this route, so my only cost was ~$40 for a cheap GPU.


JKeefe confirms that you can easily have a setup to switch between DHT2G and Direct-to-card mode easily. However, he or she is using an all analog solution (to CRTs) and doesn't have widescreen.

Candidate Solutions

1. Avoiding analog connections altogether
JKeefe suggests a way out of this analog V digital issue: just get a monitor with both inputs that are DVI. If someone can point to a good 20" (or 22") LCD monitor with two DVI ports, that'd be appreciated.

However, there are none on the Master Monitor list. The listed 20" or 22" monitors mostly come with a DVI and a VGA port.

A second possible way to avoid analog connections might be to fit a double adapter to the monitor's DVI input. Do these exist? Isn't the whole point of the "Dual" in "Dual Link DVI" to allow this?

A third possible way to avoid analog connections might be to use some kind of KVM switch? Could that work? Anybody have this kind of setup?

A forth possible way to avoid analog connections might be to not have a second graphics card at all. Use DTH2G connected to the DVI input ports on the 3 monitors for either gaming or 2D. You might use the GridMove program to assist.

Tyinsar tipped us off to this program....

One chunk of software I found indispensable with my TH2G is GridMove. It requires a bit of setup at first - though I posted my TH2G grid here: (Link)

The great thing is that (1) it's Free and (2) it's so simple to use once set up: [Win]-[1] resizes the active app to screen 1, [Win]-[2] resizes the active app to screen 1... [Win]-[6] sends the active app to zone 6 etc. (see link above for zones). For me this makes Windows and the TH2G so much easier to use well (productively) both in games as well as outside of games.

I also use it on another system with only two screens and no TH2G / DH2G - though with a different "grid" file.

Tyinsar has only one graphics card (GTX260). Tyinsar, could you confirm that for 2D work TH2G + GridMove is greater than or equal to Direct-to-cards + Ultramon?

Do most of you guys use this forth way (with or without gridmove)?

2. Which connections, Digital V Analog, I should use for the first two modes, gaming (via DTH2G) V 2D

Assuming that I can't, or it is not really important to, avoid analog connections altogether, what is the best setup?

Wouldn't the best be, in contradiction to geniv2's setup up, the following:
* Digital connections -> Gaming via DTH2G.
* Analog connections -> 2D via Direct-to-Card (Possibly with one of the connections passing through DTH2G but in analog mode).

In Usability of Triple Standard V Triple Wide Mach1.9pants wrote...

Um John Bentley why do you need to bypass TH to use your three monitors independently? PowerDesk SE allows you to maximise windows in each display, e.g. I normally run email (LH), web browsing (centre) and miscellaneous(RH) when I am mucking about on my pc. With PD-SE it is the same as having 3 independent monitors for all intents and purposes, well to me anyway!

Because geniv2 wrote ...

2 or 3 monitor + extra video card + UltraMon software is MUCH better than Th2go for non game use. because it's cheaper. extra budget videocards can be had for $30. UltraMon have MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER multimonitor managment and features than the th2g powerdesk. I have been using dual monitor for 3 years and I won't give up Ultramon for anything.

Mach1.9pants I'm glad to read you (we) can get by with PowerDesk. Note I have never gone double or triplescreen and so am relying on reports here. Perhaps geniv2 can tell us why ultramon is better than powerdesk. Could ultramon by used through TH2G anyway (and so make a second card superfluous)? Can GridMove be used through TH2G (and so make a second card superfluous)?

I know nothing about ultramon or the other.

However, for my everyday use PD-SE is fine. It acts as three independent screens (by being able to maximise to monitor rather than desktop) at the same time as one big screen (for supported games) and a single screen for those games that are not (centre monitor).

It would be interesting to see what ultramon et al would offer me over PD-SE, I await with interest a reply :)

_________________
Dipping bags at Mach1.9

You are making this so needlessly complicated!

There is almost no advantage in using 3 seperate monitors over 3 in TH2G connectivity if you are planning less than 24" monitors. If you had 3x 1920x1200 monitors that were downscaling for games then I can understand in 2D you would want that res back.

Briefly:
-Just go connect a LCD over VGA DSUB (DVI-A on gfx card) and compare to digital. You dont need assurances here for something you can easily test on virtually any monitor. Some monitors have better analog inputs than others.
-You can get 5040 over DVI-A but you loose Bezel Management.
-You could connect the 3 monitors to the secondary ports of the gfx card (as well as cables to the TH2G) then use the monitor switch (or possibly auto switch if you disable the TH2G output) but you would need to go into Windows and enable or disable to Primary or Secondary output to suit, messy.
-Many of Ultramons features are inherently part of Powerdesk/TH2G: http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/overview/
-With 3x 22" 1680x1050 monitors Powerdesk can manage maximising to appropiate screens (instead of spanning all 3 screens), snap to individual physical monitors and virtual dividers.

The 3 seperate monitors have the advantage of being positioned anywhere and a Start Menu that knows the monitor boundries. Thats all you gain unless you need higher res's.

EDIT: A general forum tip, bring your total word count down to about 25% of that, virtually noone will read such a volume of text!

_________________
[GTX1080 - 4.48GHz 4690k - planning projector mayhem]

if u plan on using 3 separate monitores independantly

USE ULTRAMON! it's the best thing since sliced bread and much better than the matrox thing.

I have a similiar setup as what the Op is disecribing
glad I can help, here's how my monitors are hooked up:

1st video card 9800GX2 nvidia (dual display)
2nd video card ATI FireMV 2400 (quad display)

Th2g is connect to DVI1 on my 9800gx2

-=-= MONITOR CONNECTIONS =-=-
Left monitor - DVI to port in FireMV
- Analog to Left output on TH2G

Center Monitor - DVI to center output on Th2g
- anaglog to 2nd output on 9800gx2

Right Monitor - DVI to port in FireMV
- Analog to Right output on Th2g


-=-=-= DISPLAY MODES/SETTINGS =--=-=-

I use UltraMon and have hotkey or 2 clicks to switching between screen setting. I mainly use two modes. this is in windows

1) Triple display: 3x 1920x1200 (for regular work)
- L and R monitors are run from the DVI port on the FireMV
- center is run form Th2g via DVI in 1920x1200 res.

2) Matrox Th2g: 3x 1440x900 (for gaming)
- disable DVI output from FireMV to L and R monitor
- th2g runs at 4320x900. Center monitor run by DVI. L & R run by
th2g but in analog mode and the monitor automatically switch to analog input since it autodetects and the DVI feed is stopped.


3) Analog gaming: Single 1920x1200 VGA Direct connection to center monitor
- I have to set SLI output from matrox dvi port to the other port on my 9800gx2 via Nvdia control panel
- I only use this when I need to play games that have to use pesky resolutions or when the game gets " blank screen but runs" because this direct connection to the monitor gives more usable resolution without bugs than say the th2go that only have a limited mode.

I'm surprised it worked out so well with no major bugs other than my Th2g not being able to use single 1920x1200 in games.

Th2g is only used when I game the rest of the time it's useless and my 2nd videocard + ultramon does a better job. and can use my monitor's full resolution.

mattsimis, thanks for your informative post.

@geniv2

I have a similiar setup as what the Op is disecribing ... [sic]

I quoted your setup in my top post.

if u plan on using 3 separate monitores independantly[sic]

I suppose that is begging my question. Should I be using 3 separate monitors (and therefore ordering a second graphics card, and worrying about DVI V analogue connections, etc)? This depends on whether

1. Ultramon is clearly better that Powerdesk or Gridmove.
2. You can't use ultramon through TH2G.

USE ULTRAMON! it's the best thing since sliced bread and much better than the matrox thing

Could we trouble you to say how so?

mattsimis seems to think Ultramon gives no significant advantage, and Mach1.9pants is curious like me.

I said there is no point if you are running the same res "for work" and "for games", look at geniv2's resolutions, they are totally different in TH2G and out of it!

If you plan on getting 3x 1680x1050 monitors then I still think there is no need for separating the monitors.

_________________
[GTX1080 - 4.48GHz 4690k - planning projector mayhem]

I've used both UltraMon and TH2Go w/PowerDesk and they are a bit different. The only lasting advantage that UltraMon had over PowerDesk that I liked was the ability to swap windows from 1 monitor to another.

Thing is you have to remember UltraMon was ment to be used with 3 independent monitors and TH2Go is virtually 1 large screen. Think of TH2Go as a single screen with 3 windowed sections that fill the entire monitor.

I assume you worry about processing power to drive 3 screens of 3D material. In my opinion your best bet is to run TH2Go w/PowerDesk but use Nvidia cards in SLI. The reason being that to the cards its nothing more then running 3 windowed apps. Good enough cards in SLI should provide plenty of power to do so. You can also go Triple or even quad SLI if needed later on down the road. Nvidia and the Digital TH2Go will allow for the highest res of 5040*1050 and the ability to scale up with aditional cards if needed.

The final selling point to me is that I need to do nothing to go from one to the other. I don't know about you but for me it removes the pain of jumping through hoops to try and do work.

When shopping for cards I would suggest getting ones with 1gb of RAM. 512+ is ok for most gaming titles but when you really start pushing the limits of a 5040*1050 res you will like the added benifits of more video RAM. Even more so when driving 3 screens of high res 3d animation.

My current setup consists of 3 20" LCDs and 2 Nvidia 9800 GTX+ cards in SLI running at a 5040*1050 res. I'm very happy with its ability to do both work and play.

mattsimis, thanks for clarifying.

Mumm, thanks for the tips on choosing a card. I have, though, explored my options in DTH2Go, GTX260 and HD4870 and have settled on a single Asus ENGTX260 896MB for power and silence reasons.

I've used both UltraMon and TH2Go w/PowerDesk and they are a bit different. The only lasting advantage that UltraMon had over PowerDesk that I liked was the ability to swap windows from 1 monitor to another.

Thing is you have to remember UltraMon was ment to be used with 3 independent monitors and TH2Go is virtually 1 large screen. Think of TH2Go as a single screen with 3 windowed sections that fill the entire monitor.

The lasting advantage is a potentially big one. Are you using "windows" and "windowed" in the same sense here? I mean under TH2GO/Powerdesk can I drag my browser, or any other windows app, from the left monitor to the other monitors readily?

The lasting advantage is a potentially big one. Are you using "windows" and "windowed" in the same sense here? I mean under TH2GO/Powerdesk can I drag my browser, or any other windows app, from the left monitor to the other monitors readily?

In short, Yes... PowerDesk allows you to use the 3 monitors as if they were independent. You can drag, move, and maximize as you would normally. Including dragging a windowed app across from one monitor to the next. Maximized windows only take up the monitor its displayed on. So you can run 3 maximized windows total (1 per monitor). The bottom task bar runs across all 3 monitors.

What I ment by UltraMon's advantage was that it has the ability to send a maximized window to any monitor by clicking an arrow button that sits next to the minimize, restore, close buttons in the upper right corner of the title bar. There are <--- & ---> like buttons. Makes for faster moving is all.

The 260's should do well too. I only brought it up as I find it pretty easy to max out my 512mb of video RAM.