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| Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... http://www.wsgf.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=15855 |
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| Author: | Glottis [ 31 May 2008, 18:27 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
First of all, what makes you think vert- in this game is a bad thing? Obviously it was INTENDED by the developers. It was intended for a character to be that close to the screen and no intended to be further away like it is if you play at 4:3/5:4. Meaning that people playing this game the way it was not meant to be played are the ones on their 4:3/5:4 monitors and not us, WS users (well technically even 16:10 wasn't intended but let's not get into this). So we WS users have tiny or no bars during the cutscenes and we play this game the way it was meant to be played and you are still unsatisfied. So what if it's vert- obviously that's what original xbox 360 version developers inteded. And yes you can use FOV 100 or whatever in the console, but that'll mess up your cutscenes badly. |
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| Author: | BlueMak [ 31 May 2008, 18:38 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
First of all, what makes you think vert- in this game is a bad thing? Obviously it was INTENDED by the developers. It was intended for a character to be that close to the screen and no intended to be further away like it is if you play at 4:3/5:4. Meaning that people playing this game the way it was not meant to be played are the ones on their 4:3/5:4 monitors and not us, WS users (well technically even 16:10 wasn't intended but let's not get into this). So, to see if I understand you correctly, the developers intended to make the game so that the gamer has the exact same view from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen no matter if they use a widescreen monitor/tv or not. In fact, it was their plan from day 1 to make it so the users of 4:3 monitors/TVs, who are forced to not play the game as the developers wanted to (widescreen), to be punished by forcing them to not have zoomed in camera and forcing them to be able to see more from the bottom to the top of the screen. I can see how that can be. It makes perfect sense to me to punish people with 4:3 monitors by giving them more real estate, and to award Widescreen monitors gamers with a zoomed in view and less view on the height of the view. In fact, it is a well known knowledge that since most if not all of the games using Unreal3 engine have the same way of handling widescreen resolutions, that all the developers using the Unreal 3 engine, have the same exact artistic views on the matter, and has NOTHING to do with the developers not bothering enough to change a couple of lines of code and just use the engine as it was handed in to them. In fact, we should all thank the gods that there is this connection of minds through space and time that allows so many different developers have the exact same view on how this should be handled. Well done! |
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| Author: | Paddy the Wak [ 31 May 2008, 19:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
Split from the Detailed Report for for the same reason this was ... http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13819 |
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| Author: | Abram [ 31 May 2008, 23:44 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
Whether it was intentional or not, it's still the wrong way to do it. I really cun't see how developers havn't realised this yet. At least add a FOV slider bar, folks. |
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| Author: | Psygnosis [ 02 Jun 2008, 06:33 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
Mass Effect started on the 360, the 360 is a widescreen system. All games on it from the have to be made with that in mind. Obviously the developers must have taken this into consideration. If they chose to take an open matte approach to non-widescreen resolutions then so be it. As I don't have the game I'd like to know how ME360 treats 4:3 resolutions. If ME360 and MEPC are the same then I wont whine for a fix. |
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| Author: | Ryom [ 04 Jun 2008, 03:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
In a 3D rendered world there is no good reason not to allow FOV changes. In a 3D rendered world, you don't have to choose Either Vert- or Horz+, both can be implemented. I can understand anamorphic if the devs truly have an artistic vision in mind... |
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| Author: | kyleb [ 04 Jun 2008, 09:55 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
Surely if you can accept letterboxing to a fixed aspect ratio, you could also see the reasoning open mattestyle presentations? Many directors prefer to do exactly as Mass Effect does for narrower aspect ratio viewings of their films. Would you say directors like Stanley Kubrick did widescreen wrong because they preferred 4:3 releases their work to be presented in open matte? Granted I'd prefer the option to increase the FOV as well, but I can't rightly consider their implementation of widescreen wrong. Rather, just as when adapting 4:3 game to wider aspect ratios is wrong to cut off part of the view, nothing should be cut off when adapting a 16:9 game to narrower aspect ratios either. Unilike movies, games don't rightly even have the option to use pan and scan for narrower aspect ratios, since the player is often in control of the view. |
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| Author: | Ryom [ 04 Jun 2008, 19:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
The edge is cutoff going down to 4:3 from 16:9 because of the naturally thinner aspect, so removing the edges retains the perspective and things look the same... no zooming! This is normal and desirable... not a trade-off. However, when we are using a 3D rendered world and not film which is limited by physical realities, so we can give the player lots of choice. Do they want to letterbox? Let them. Do they want to have a huge or narrow FOV? Let them. Do they want to go vert- or horz+? Let them either way. There are no limitations with a 3D game world available. In a properly designed game, the devs would give the players the ability to set their view how they like. It is possible to please everyone! |
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| Author: | kyleb [ 04 Jun 2008, 22:17 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
The trade off with cutting off the edges is that developers makes their games game to present scenes such as walking into an area to find enemies attacking from both edges on a 16:9 display, then 4:3 users get attacked from off screen since those edges are cut off for thinner aspect ratios. Just like 4:3 games adapted to widescreen using vert- can mess up gameplay because they leave us not seeing stuff at the top and bottom we were intended to see, so does cropping of the sides of a widescreen game with adapting it down to 4:3. Regardless, I agree that it is shameless that UE3 doesn't have anything like the DesiredFOV and DefaultFOV options we use to tweak all those games built on previous iterations of UE. If Epic were on the ball they would have expanded their engine to include a separate HUD FOV scaling so triple head users could easily adjust the HUD to fit their main monitors. |
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| Author: | JohnnyWakko [ 05 Jun 2008, 10:23 ] |
| Post subject: | Debate about Vert- in Mass Effect ... |
The trade off with cutting off the edges is that developers makes their games game to present scenes such as walking into an area to find enemies attacking from both edges on a 16:9 display, then 4:3 users get attacked from off screen since those edges are cut off for thinner aspect ratios. ... That is not true. Because in a 3D environment, you can be facing any direction, so it shouldn't matter how wide or narrow your FOV is as something jumping at you from behind/top/left/right won't suprise anyone if they are already facing the behind/top/left/right in the first place. That's the whole point of a 3D world, it lets your look around uninterupted. If designers want to scare someone with an ambush for EG, then they have to have things jumping our from behind corners or objects. No matter teh FOV, you can't see behind a corners unless you are hacking. FOV should not affect level design. They should expect everyone to be looking everywhere, as this is exactly what is happening. |
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