Widescreen Gaming Forum

[quote]Its cheaper than buying a freaking 360. And gamers still get to use their mouse and keyboard!

I don't really consider a 360 that expensive mate. You can get one for 150 euro right now with the recent pricecuts and the current cashback action. You can hardly get a decent videocard for that and on top of that the 360 will last for 4 years or something where you'll have to upgrade a videocard every friggin 6 months to run the latest games. I think a console is actually a pretty cheap investment in the longrun.

Oh yeah, and isn't there some piece of hardware that let's you connect a mouse and keyboard to a console aswell?True, but what you're forgetting is that relative to the risk it's still expensive.

A 360 may last you four years as compared to a video card that would last six months from your position, but if you open it up and risk bricking the firmware on the DVD drive, then it wouldn't work at all after that point for all practical means (Games wouldn't be playable and you couldn't play anything on XBL because you would be banned from the service when and if it detects the modified firmware. You could only watch movies and play music, even though the XBLA games you already had on it would still be playable).

And to answer the quip about the mouse and keyboard, yes there is. Last time I checked it was around sixty dollars, but didn't work all that well (although a USB keyboard can be connected to any 360, it just will only work for menus and text).

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't have my 360 modded and I never will also. All I think is that with the money saved on hardware for a pc you can buy new games for a console on a pretty regular bases. Saving 200 euro on a new graphics card in half a year means you can atleast buy 3 to 4 games every 6 months. And that's from the graphicscard money alone.

I myself buy a new game every 2 months or something depending on if something good gets released. I actually enjoy the wait for a new good game aswell. Pirating takes a whole lot out of that fun if you ask me.

Oh yeah, and isn't there some piece of hardware that let's you connect a mouse and keyboard to a console aswell?

The current best way of using KB/M on a 360 or PS3 is via the XIM, though there are problems and expenses many are not willing to tolerate.

You can buy a premade XIM or build your own for the PS3 for under $40. It's easier on the PS3 because the PS2 to PS3 cable adapter is zero lag and cheap. On the 360 the only zero lag cable connector is the pricey XFPS, which is a complete KB/M adapter rather than just cable. Nothing beats the XIM though for the adapting itself, so it's well over $100 for all the parts necessary for adapting the 360 as best as it can be done.

However, even the best of KB/M adapter setups are only as good as the game they're played with. Most console games are written exclusively for the analog mini toggles on gamepads. A scant few work well with adapters, usually the ones like Halo and CoD 4 which have a more flexible control scripting. So I ask you, if you were a PC gamer that struggles with gamepads would you want to buy a 360 then spend well over $100, and I do mean WELL over, just to have a hodge podge of parts that only get you good KB/M adaptation on a scant few games?

On the other hand, if ALL console games were developed like Halo and CoD4, it could very well mean even less PC game sales and more KB/M adapters would no doubt be made, dropping their price. The evolution of the gaming console has greatly complicated gaming for PC gamers, esp those whom detest gamepads. However, if say the PS3 were to get a more Wii-like controller, though more refined like the In2Games Fusion, I could see myself getting a PS3.

Even then though, it would only be if all games written for the PS3 made full use of the controller, including being able to point the device to aim, vs using mini toggles to aim. Mini toggle aiming is the single most thing I hate about gamepads. BTW, by more refined I mean the Fusion uses ultrasonic technology whereas the Wii only uses RF. The Fusion tracks so precisely it's not unlike blue/green screen CG effects used in movies.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/20/in2games-fusion-controller-spices-up-next-gen-motion-sensing/

Then how did he say it incorrectly, why was that incorrect, and how should he have said it instead?

The interviewer asked if Cliff sees the Xbox360 as his main platform, instead of the PC. Cliff could have answered:
"Yes, we do. Piracy is a big problem on the PC, so we are focusing on console development."

Question answered. Next question.

Speculation about who pirates pc games or the idiosyncrasies of the platform and how they relate to piracy should be an entirely different discussion. Unfortunately Cliff jammed this topic together with his answer about Epic's choice of platform, resulting in an ambiguous mess.

Cliff's statement flows like this:
Savvy pc users know how to pirate games.
Piracy is a huge problem on the PC.
Highend pc games suffer because of piracy.

Each statement on it's own is relatively benign and contains some measure accuracy. But strung together with poor logic (many savvy users know nothing of torrents, and many torrenting pirates are otherwise computer cavemen) and poorly-worded delivery (how does one jump directly from discussing integrated video chips to piracy?) creates ambiguity, and ambiguity is where implication lives.

Thus, the above statements easily merge into "Savvy PC users pirate games in droves and they are the reason highend games suffer."

This is why I said I see an implication. You read Cliff's statement and obviously saw it differently.

-edit-
I see that the thread has gone in a completely different direction while I wrote this post. If this horse is dead I'm fine with calling off the flogging.

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VirtualDub Game Recording Guide | BFME2 & RotWK Widescreen/Triplehead Mods

Can't really compare console and pc gaming, no matter how close they try to get to one another.

Example, I've been gaming in 1080p for hmm, over 5 years. Longer than the 360 or ps3 have been around.

Sure the hardware's more expensive, if you go in that category. Plenty of gaming can be done with parts like video card not over 150-200$CDN.

It's always been a case of pay a little often or a lot less so. With of course some research on the best picks for bang for buck in the long runs.

Sure I could buy a 360 or a ps3 and not have to worry about the hardware for a few years. The caveats to that are:
- gaming pad controls: fine for some games, unplayable in others (even on my ps2, I have games I can't play because of wacky unchangeable controls they picked)
- Definitely finite lifespan: while debatable that pcs also have that, at least some parts can be reused: case, psu, hdd, mouse, kb, often cpu/mem till the video gets too far anywho.
- disc required to play: while some pc games need disc checks, the option to play without one is by far easier to achieve on a pc, with many games it doesn't stay an annoyance to avoid swaping disc, it becomes a necessity.
- general lack of flexibility: on a pc, if the video output doesn't suit my display or is plain crap (ps2 15:9 pillarboxed component output) I can adapt it, either swapping video hardware or through software fixes of some sort (softth). Nevermind total console lack of any super-wide screen th2g and such support. Same for 5+monitors for flight sims.

I've always considered pc gaming to be an expensive way to be on the bleeding egde of console gaming power. And letting me do other stuff with the same hardware to boot.

Especially now that more gpu number crunching is starting up, we may soon found that the 'expensive pc console' whacks ps3 and other media player wannabes right through the wall.

I myself have gotten bored with the expense of pc gaming, but I'll still take it over the red ring of death, screaming fans or disc drive, gamepad controls and general stiffness of consoles any day.

Besides, it's been shown that a 800$ pc can rival a 3000$ one, noone forces you to be a big spender.

Mesh I would just like to add one more note to your list.

The fact that you can update to play a game with better performance. Some console games are locked at 30FPS because they cannot achieve a constant 60. The PC release of the game game is unlocked and well if you cant play it with a constant 60, you have the option to upgrade and make it so, unlike a console.

As I said, flexible.

And that's without mentionning mods, from the less reputable ones such as 'hot coffee' to outstanding ones like multi-gigabyte texture upgrades for oblivion, hl2 and others.

About the only thing making PC gaming less flexible than it used to be are crappy console ports, some of which have the FPS capped at 30 even on the PC version. Overall though the PC platform is still much more flexible and capable, and many console games are now developed on PCs. It's kind of a travesty when the one's that are don't ever make it to PC.

If there's ever a PC Gaming Server version of Skynet, the first thing it will do is hunt down and destroy all consoles. LOL

Skynet is here, most people just don't recognize it yet.